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Tuesday, Aug 9, 2011
TOPIC: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
HOSTED BY: AislinneDrakostuu Resident


[19:11] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I am happy that you A/all are here.

[19:12] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): This discussion is about PTSD and how that can affect a relationship, in particular one within the BDSM community.

[19:13] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Does anyone here know what PTSD IS?

[19:13] Adren Sack: me

[19:13] Zoey Starlight (zoey380): I might have an Idea

[19:14] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, or PTSD as it is commonly referred to is much more common that most think it is. The degrees to which this disorder affects one's life vary greatly. It can be a minor inconvenience, or a life altering and affecting disorder with devastating consequences.

[19:15] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): The point of this discussion is to start to understand how PTSD needs to be handled in a BDSM relationship, and how to nurture a safe environment for one that suffers from PTSD; along with what can cause PTSD and what events can trigger boughs of PTSD.

[19:15] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): What is PTSD? As stated before, it is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. The first thing in understanding how to conquer issues with PTSD is to understand what it is beyond the name. Post, something that happened in one's past.

[19:16] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Trauma, this is the biggie. What is trauma exactly? What can be considered traumatic? Does it have to be devastatingly traumatic for it to affect an individual? Stress: an instinctual reaction or emotion to a particularly troubling or overly stimulating event. Disorder: To disturb the normal physical or mental health of; derange. That is the technical definition, so when you put it all together,

[19:16] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): PTSD is an event in the past that has been overly traumatic for an individual that causes the instinctual fight or flight reaction that has deranged the normal physical or mental health of said individual.

[19:17] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): The symptoms of PTSD fall into three main categories.

[19:17] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): The first being "reliving" the events, which disturbs day to day activites. This includes, but is not limited to the following

[19:17] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Flashback episodes, where the event seems to be happening again and again

[19:18] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Repeated upsetting memories of the event

[19:18] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Repeated nightmares of the event

[19:18] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Strong, uncomfortable reactions to situations that remind you of the event

[19:20] Lord Kain (lordkain123): what about event's so tromatic that the memories are repressed?

[19:20] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): getting to that -smiles-

[19:21] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): That falls under avoidance

[19:21] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): the second symptom of PTSD

[19:22] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): This can be an emotional "numbing, or feeling as though you don't care about anything, feeling detatched, being unable to remember important aspects of the trauma, having lack of interest in normal activities, showing less of your moods, avoiding places, people, or thoughts that remind oyu of the event, or feeling like you have no future.

[19:26] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): The third symptom is categorized as arousal.

[19:26] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): This meaning

[19:27] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): An individual has difficulty concentrating, startling easily, having an exaggerated response to things that startle you, Feeling more aware, or hypervigilant, feeling irritable or having outbursts of anger, or having trouble falling or staying asleep.

[19:28] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): In cases where there were others involved and an individual faired better than others, they might suffer from survivors guilt, along with PTSD, which have the typical symptoms of stress, anxiety, and tension.

[19:29] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Now, what can cause PTSD. For the purpose of this discussion, we are focusing on PTSD cause by sexual and domestic abuse.

[19:30] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Please do let your thoughts and questions flow freely.

[19:31] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Is this a current party of anyone's life at the present moment?

[19:32] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Has/is anyone here affected either as a supporter or sufferer and is comfortable talking about it?

[19:32] Adren Sack: i am

[19:33] Al Jolbey: I know too many who seem affected by it

[19:34] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): and in your experince, either of you, have you faced a situation you didn't know how to handle?

[19:35] Al Jolbey: I've handled flashbacks and panic attacks. I've helped eliminate nightmares or reduced their frequency & severity

[19:35] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Did you know, at that moment, what it was you were dealing with?

[19:36] Al Jolbey: I sort of did

[19:36] Adren Sack: for me as a person personally is affected by PTSD. i cant handle being yelled at over texts in person phone none of it

[19:36] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I do believe that is avoidance.

[19:36] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): You are avoiding things that seem to trigger you.

[19:36] Lord Kain (lordkain123): is it a rejection issue or confrontation?

[19:38] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I have all three symptoms at times. So I can understand your need to avoid a confrontation.

[19:38] Adren Sack: same here if triggered i have had all 3 depending on some diffetrt things

[19:39] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Something for yourself, is every day to remind yourself you can stand up for yourself. If my guess is correct, and if it's not please correct me, you do not like it because someone used such actions to belittle you in tremendous ways.

[19:40] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): this can affect someone's psychy in various ways

[19:41] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): it depends on if a person is prone to fight or flight when dealing with stress.

[19:41] Adren Sack: ya i guess thats one why to disscribe it... but it worse when it is some close to you

[19:41] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Yes, it is.

[19:41] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): It is a feeling of helplessness in the face of authority.

[19:42] Al Jolbey: Does it need to be authority? CAn it also be triggered by a bully type?

[19:43] Adren Sack: sometimes they can be the same thing as well

[19:43] Clarke Vaher: I think a bully type is perceived to be exerting authority - all in the eyes of the "victim" perhaps?

[19:44] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Very perceptive.

[19:44] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): A commonality for "bullies" is they try and put someone down, in the face of being put down themselves.

[19:45] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): That is why they call it a cycle of abuse.

[19:46] Lord Kain (lordkain123): most bullies suffer from pstd themselfs,...thay just react to it with a lashing affect

[19:46] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): One thing I must stress,

[19:46] Al Jolbey: I am not so sure

[19:46] Clarke Vaher whispers: interesting thought

[19:47] Al Jolbey: ... bu that is for another discussion

[19:47] Lord Kain (lordkain123): a kind of self defiance of thair own presived weaknesse

[19:47] Al Jolbey: Not this discussion

[19:47] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): because this came up in the last discussion

[19:48] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): It is not the support system's job to force someone into dealing with their PTSD.

[19:48] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): That can be very harmful and devistating to one's psychological welfare.

[19:49] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Each person's journy in dealing with their life and their past, is comperable to a snowflake. No two are ever the same.

[19:50] Al Jolbey: Is it safe to encourage someone to recognize the possibility of PTSD?

[19:50] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Yes.

[19:50] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Encouragement is good.

[19:51] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): But forcing someone into a treatment could backfire.

[19:51] Al Jolbey: When does it cross the line into "force"? :-)

[19:51] Lord Kain (lordkain123): you WILL do this,

[19:51] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I am not licenced psychologist, please do keep that in mind.

[19:51] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): But when you do not allow the person a choice.

[19:51] Lord Kain (lordkain123): you SHOULD do this,

[19:51] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): when you bring everything to the front and tell them that they "have" to deal with it

[19:52] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): dealing in absolutes instead of encouragement.

[19:52] Lord Kain (lordkain123): if you don't,..

[19:53] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Now, some of you are probably wondering how this ties into BDSM

[19:53] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): The reason why this is important to understand, is incase you ever find your Master, or your Sub, suffers from this condition.

[19:54] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): It can be confusing to see one go into a flashback and not know what it is, or what to do.

[19:54] Johnnie Wendt nods.

[19:54] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): And in times of certain, private moments, a symptom flair can make it nearly impossible for safety measures,

[19:54] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): such as safe words, or tap outs, to be used.

[19:55] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Or in the case of it being the Master/Mistress with the disorder, keep them from hearing it.

[19:55] Adren Sack: sometimes they just run whitch is dangurus in and of itself

[19:55] Clarke Vaher: It takes a lot of talk, almost like aftercare, and patience after an episode, to approach and figure out "what happened?".

[19:56] Ki (kiongakyu): Isn't this why Tops, bottoms and especially DMs are supposed to be trained in body language, non-verbal communications and micro-expressions?

[19:56] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Yes, but in situations like how we are,

[19:56] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): we are online, and still participating in this lifestly.

[19:56] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): How do you know that someone behind that computer screen isn't suffering from something said, and unable to respond to you?

[19:57] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): It is so much important in this setting

[19:57] Ki (kiongakyu): If I were to put them anywhere NEAR that type of situation I'd be having them on voice and their local contact available on my phone

[19:57] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): But how do you know they have it,

[19:57] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): if you have not talked about it, discussed it, and understood it?

[19:57] Ki (kiongakyu): Stay on voice. Vocal cues will tell you

[19:57] Johnnie Wendt: How would you know Ki?

[19:57] Ki (kiongakyu): Vocal cues.

[19:57] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): What if someone is unable to use voice?

[19:57] Adren Sack: soemtimes it gets so bad all you can do is exit turn it off and not want to go back

[19:58] Lord Kain (lordkain123): a good idea,...but trigers could be something unexpected

[19:58] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): There are many here who cannot use voice.

[19:58] Ki (kiongakyu): Then that in an of itself is a vocal cue

[19:58] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Not necessarily.

[19:58] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): One may not have a microphone.

[19:58] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): how is that a clue?

[19:58] Al Jolbey: Depending on the context I'd bet on it being a clue.

[19:58] Ki (kiongakyu): Let me rephrase again please....

[19:58] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Of course.

[19:59] Ki (kiongakyu): I would not be playing in text with likely triggers, only on voice. Where I would have vocal cues.

[19:59] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): That is a good thought

[19:59] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): but you never know what a trigger could be for an individual.

[19:59] Ki (kiongakyu): Amen to that

[19:59] Lord Kain (lordkain123): realy?,....thare is an anima I see all the time

[19:59] Johnnie Wendt: hmm but then youhave to know the person extraordinarilly well already?

[20:00] Lord Kain (lordkain123): it set's me off

[20:00] Clarke Vaher: I generally don't tie people up unless I know them pretty well.... personally speaking :)

[20:00] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Tying someone up is a very... common thing to be a trigger

[20:01] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): If I may.

[20:01] Lord Kain (lordkain123): I get anxiaty attacks from a freands ao,..couse it has him bending over

[20:01] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): The slamming of a door, the suprise of an individual being behind me and me not expecting it at all.

[20:01] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): anything of that nature,

[20:02] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): will trigger me

[20:02] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): being around drunk men triggers me.

[20:02] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I don't even know what all of them are

[20:02] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): But I do know how I react, and what to instruct others to do when it happens.

[20:03] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Each individual is unique.

[20:03] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Their symptoms are different

[20:03] Johnnie Wendt: Aislinne what do you isntruct others to do when it happens...... or are you coming to that?

[20:03] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): For me,

[20:03] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): if i get a flash back,

[20:04] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I tell people not to touch me,

[20:04] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): not to talk to me

[20:04] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): To let me go through it

[20:04] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): and once I respond to them by name, I am okay

[20:04] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): If one tries to touch me, they get hurt.

[20:04] Johnnie Wendt: ok

[20:04] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I have nailed a few guys in the family jewels before because they have tried to be too close during an event.

[20:05] Clarke Vaher crosses his legs

[20:05] Johnnie Wendt: but that is obviously in rl....

[20:05] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Each person responds differently.

[20:05] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Yes, it is.

[20:05] Johnnie Wendt: in here is somewhat different..

[20:05] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Unfortunatly with me,

[20:05] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): when I have an event

[20:05] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I nkow it is going to put me out of commission for a few minutes

[20:06] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I do not engage in BDSM activites myself, online, for fear that I could be triggered

[20:06] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Looking at certain things

[20:06] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): makes me sick to my stomach.

[20:07] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): There are things, pictures, activites, that are triggers

[20:08] Clarke Vaher: But, if I may, you know so much about the problem, it seems you have an advantage and can begin the desensitizing process, with skilled help, can you not?

[20:08] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Unfortunately for me,

[20:09] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I have blocked out many memories of my life.

[20:09] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I have been researching in order to understand myself.

[20:09] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I tend to end up helping others more than myself.

[20:09] Johnnie Wendt: yes I understand that...but what can a person do who does not suffer from PTSD do if their partner has an attack say during roleplay...would one know... or could one drive the subject deeper into the event...should one depart.... or what should onedo?

[20:10] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): This is where communication is the key

[20:10] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): and if you have a partner that suffers, you need to talk to them, and find out from them what they know, how they want you to react.

[20:10] Al Jolbey: Johnnie, think aftercare with a vengence

[20:10] Lord Kain (lordkain123): depends,...I try and wait,..simply allowing them to know I'm still thare

[20:10] Clarke Vaher: Maybe you're helping 'you' in the process of helping others, ais...

[20:10] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Anyone should seek therapy if they believe it is something they must deal with.

[20:11] Clarke Vaher: I think Lord Kain has the right approach

[20:11] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Quite possibly, Clarke.

[20:11] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Again, I am not licenced as a therapist of any means.

[20:11] Johnnie Wendt: Yes I understand that but my feeling is the subject is in denial of what happens...and they appear to want to rpeat the traumatic event even though it tips them over the edge..

[20:11] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I have been in therapy for the greater majority of my life, as i am twnety four and have been in therapy since i was five.

[20:12] Lord Kain (lordkain123): the roughest part to pstd is self shame,..simply letting someone know thay arn't judged for thair condition goes a long way

[20:12] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): That is key.

[20:12] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Many do not like to talk about it because they feel they did something wrong.

[20:12] Lord Kain (lordkain123): exactly

[20:12] Johnnie Wendt: yes that is the case

[20:13] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Re-living the event

[20:13] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): forces them, either conciously or sub consciencely to re-examine it

[20:13] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): in other words, be able to try and find where they did something wrong.

[20:13] Lord Kain (lordkain123): in many such cases you will never truly convince them otherwise,....only that you are ok with them

[20:14] Al Jolbey: With the domestic & sexual abuse that we're focusing on here the victims also often blame themselves, which makes it harder for them across the board

[20:14] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu) breathes deeply

[20:14] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I personaly came to terms with the idea that my past wasn't my fault, shortly after my daughter was born.

[20:15] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): But I have always been proatvice about wanting to feel normal

[20:15] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): But, in having my child, I decided I needed to be a good mum, and finally try working through everything.

[20:15] Lord Kain (lordkain123): but thare is still the shame for taking a sertain amount of pleasure in it isn't thare?

[20:16] Ki (kiongakyu): I stopped a long time ago trying to feel 'normal' and aimed instead for being under the control of whom or what I wanted to be under the control of instead of my PTSD. Since I have multiple origin PTSD, that's been an interesting trip

[20:16] Al Jolbey: Often pleasure is not involved!

[20:16] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): He is speaking of later in life.

[20:16] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): and, for many

[20:16] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): those events they experienced when they were younger

[20:17] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): have been ingraned in their mind as...

[20:17] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): what should cause a good feeling and be normal

[20:17] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): even though they know consciously that it is socially unacceptable

[20:18] Johnnie Wendt: but in actuaity does it give them a good feeling or the reverse?

[20:18] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): it can

[20:18] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): but it can also make them feel guilty afterwards.

[20:18] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): knowing that they shouldn't feel good about it.

[20:18] Lord Kain (lordkain123): very

[20:19] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Please bare with me

[20:19] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): as briging up my own examples can be difficult

[20:20] Lord Kain (lordkain123): would it help explain my veiws if I shared a small part of my pstd issue?

[20:20] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I often feel guilt in varoius activities, such as the idea of what excites me or catches my interests

[20:21] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Socailly, when you speak to many about sex, they are candid

[20:21] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): which makes it difficult to feel accepted when you have a normal psychy

[20:21] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): When your conception of what is normal has been distorted by the events of your life, this becomes increasingly difficult

[20:22] Lord Kain (lordkain123): lol I'm a lot of things,...normal is never one :)

[20:23] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Facing these "abnormalities" takes strength and support

[20:23] Johnnie Wendt smiles thinking normalcy is often in the eye of the beholder and can have an extremely wide range outside normal social conditioning and the laws of any land.

[20:23] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): and Kain, you can share anything you like.

[20:23] Lord Kain (lordkain123): normality is for those that lack imagenation - Darel King

[20:23] Al Jolbey: I'd hazzard a guess that no one here thinks of themself as normal

[20:24] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): now that we have gotten onto how the use of the term normal is subjective

[20:24] Johnnie Wendt smiles. "I do."

[20:24] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): back to topic

[20:24] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): There is a sexual and psychological "norm"

[20:25] Lord Kain (lordkain123): my earliest memories are of being sexualy abused by my older cousin

[20:27] Lord Kain (lordkain123): he was shall we say well endowed

[20:28] Lord Kain (lordkain123): I was hurt physicly by this,...altho at the time I saw nothing wrong with it

[20:29] Lord Kain (lordkain123): I was taken to the doctors and at that point all hell broke loose in my famaly and with the authoraties

[20:29] Lord Kain (lordkain123): my uncle and several of my cousins not only blamed me but never forgave me

[20:30] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): You did absolutly nothing wrong.

[20:30] Johnnie Wendt: so it wasnt the event so much as the reaction of others that caused your emotional trauma?

[20:30] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): When someone older than you makes you feel it is okay, it is their responsiblility and their fault, not your own.

[20:30] Lord Kain (lordkain123): I know this in my consios thought,....however

[20:31] Lord Kain (lordkain123): it has had an efect that I will never be past

[20:32] Lord Kain (lordkain123): I know that I am bi,...but after the reaction I endured I can never feel comfortable with a guy

[20:32] Johnnie Wendt: Understandable?

[20:32] Lord Kain (lordkain123): I get anxiaty attacks when presented with the idea

[20:33] Lord Kain (lordkain123): I get anxiaty attacks when ever I see a badge

[20:34] Johnnie Wendt: I can understand that.

[20:35] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Does anyone else feel this way at times?

[20:35] Johnnie Wendt shakes his head.

[20:35] Lord Kain (lordkain123): the self guilt realy kicks my ass with the fact that (other than being hurt) I enjoyed it,...it was sociatal reaction that messed me up

[20:40] Lord Kain (lordkain123): when I gave it thought,..if what he did was so bad,..then I had to be worce

[20:40] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): You cannot consider it that way

[20:40] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): because you were taking lead from someone you trusted

[20:40] Lord Kain (lordkain123): at 5,...you can

[20:40] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): someone that convinced you it was okay.

[20:40] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Of course

[20:40] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): But now

[20:40] Johnnie Wendt: and the last sentence is not true Kain

[20:40] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): you have no reason to be embarrased

[20:40] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): At a young age you are so impressionable

[20:41] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I... I did not see anything wrong with what happened to me until someone showed me it was wrong, and took steps to correct it

[20:41] Al Jolbey: Logic rarely trumps emotion :-(

[20:41] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I was taught to believe it was a special game.

[20:42] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): All of these aspects

[20:42] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): come into play in my psychy now.

[20:42] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): This is why open communication is so important

[20:42] Lord Kain (lordkain123): I can't tell you how many times I was locked in a room with angry people wanting to know every detail of what went on,...I had no choice but to think thay were mad at me

[20:43] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): those people did not know what they were doing

[20:43] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): That is very understandable

[20:43] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): and handled the situation all wrong

[20:43] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I will tell you that right now.

[20:43] Lord Kain (lordkain123): not to mention these are the same people that took my cousins away from me

[20:43] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): But, back to how this ties into the topic, knowing these key facts, will help you understand a person.

[20:43] Lord Kain (lordkain123): my uncle was the only male figure in my life

[20:44] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): It will equip you to be that support system

[20:44] Lord Kain (lordkain123): adult male anyway

[20:44] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): That in and of itsself was traumatic

[20:44] Johnnie Wendt: Hmmm.... so society's cure in these events was much worse than the events could ever be considered to be in a sane society?

[20:44] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Society will never be particularly sane

[20:45] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): not in my opinion

[20:45] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): not when everyone is striving to be something they are not.

[20:45] Johnnie Wendt: hmmm True

[20:45] Lord Kain (lordkain123): to this day I reject authoraty in many forms

[20:46] Lord Kain (lordkain123): can't tell ya how many jobs I lost for that lol

[20:46] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): BDSM, contrarty to popular believe, to me is a very.... intimate and supportive lifestyle when it comes to completely knowing your partner.

[20:46] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): It requires more thought, effort, and planning than most relationships

[20:47] Lord Kain (lordkain123): I imagion so

[20:48] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I would like to share one bit,

[20:48] Johnnie Wendt: yes that is true...and carries many more responsibilities...especially for the Master/Dom/ Mistress

[20:48] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): that a friend gave me

[20:48] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): actually

[20:48] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Johnnie

[20:48] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): it is for everyone

[20:49] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): a Dom is just as able to suffer

[20:49] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): as a sub

[20:49] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): they just used the guize of control to hide it

[20:49] Al Jolbey: How might you recognize someone has or may have PTSD before you're faceed with a flashback or panic attack?

[20:49] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): watch their language, you can tell, even through typing, when someone is hesitant about someting

[20:49] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): and nothing beats having an honest conversation about one's likes, dislikes, and past sexual history

[20:50] Lord Kain (lordkain123): thare are a few sighns,.....such as that

[20:50] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Also

[20:50] Lord Kain (lordkain123): mood swings,...seemingly random behavier

[20:50] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): I would encourage all of you to read friday's log of this discussion

[20:51] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): it was a very very different tone,

[20:51] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): and might have useful information for you as well.

[20:51] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): also

[20:51] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Keep this study in mind

[20:52] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): A demographic questionnaire and 7 psychometric tests were administered to 32 self-identified Bondage/Domination/Sado-Masochism (BDSM) practitioners. Although psychoanalytic literature suggests that high levels of certain types of psychopathology should be prevalent among BDSM practitioners, this sample failed to produce widespread, high levels of psychopathology on psychometric measures of depression, anxiety, obsessive-compulsion, psychological sadism, psychological masochism, or PTSD.

[20:52] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): In fact, on measures of clinical psychopathology and severe personality pathology, this sample appeared to be comparable to both published test norms and to DSM-IV-TR estimates for the general population. There were. however, some exceptions to this general pattern, most notably the higher-than-average levels of narcissism and nonspecific dissociative symptoms found in the sample.

[20:52] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): This study also raises significant concern about the appropriateness of the diagnosis of sexual masochism and sadism in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association or, minimally, the diagnostic criteria of these disorders.

[20:52] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): If anyone here is struggling with this issue ,I would urge you to seek council.

[20:52] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): Support systems are wonderful, but you must help yourself first and foremost.

[20:53] คίşℓίภภє (aislinnedrakostuu): You can get more information about post-traumatic stress disorder from the American Psychiatric Association -- www.psych.org.